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[ profile] logophilos : Pissed off now [Warning: The author has requested we not link, but our our policy is that we do not remove links to posts except in exceptional circumstances, and we consider any post publicly on the internet is available for linking and discussion; Linkspam is not Metafandom. The revised policy statement with a clearer statement will be posted no later than January 17]

How hard is it for people to distinguish between what I see, and what I believe? I see appropriative porn being passed off as ‘gay literature. I believe this is as wrong as a very wrong thing, and I hate it. If I am reporting on the current state of m/m and the prevailing attitudes, then I have to in honesty report that the porn is part of the current state.
That doesn’t mean I like it, or approve of it, or don’t wish it to die in a fucking fire.

[ profile] paradox_dragon:The whole "is (some) slash homophobic" debate is here again

Anyway, let's establish this upfront: gay men, bi men, and all men who have sex with men absolutely have the right to criticize their representation in fiction, and I think all right-thinking people have an obligation to listen to those criticisms and respond to them thoughtfully (I am not saying "You must obey!" but I am saying that you cannot dismiss those concerns or, yeah, you're exhibiting a lot of straight privilege. This is true of all oppressed groups, including women and people of color.

[ profile] gwailowrite What? Straight Women Shouldn't Write Gay Characters? Huh?

What I have witnessed in droves in m/m is that some people when called on stereotypical or offensive portrayals they have written get very defensive and decide they are going to DERAIL the conversation away from themselves and the possible mistakes they have made. Very often (too often) this is when that person will start shouting "You are telling me that I shouldn't write gay characters."

[ profile] sparkindarkness I am not your accessory

Gay men as friends don’t exist for the greater glory of straight women. We don’t exist as accessories to a straight woman’s life. We’re not friends because of how it benefits you. We’re people, we have value and personality of our own.

[ profile] smirnoffmule: My bingo playing friends approved this message
Obviously, there are legitimate instances where it's relevant to cite an opinion or anecdote that was told to you by a gay friend, and these are usually clear in context. Where it becomes a tired and overused groan-inducing cliche is where a person starts to wheel out the fact that they have gay friends as evidence that they are either a) definitely right b) definitely qualified to speak on behalf of the queer community c) definitely very cool d) definitely not being offensive or e) definitely not homophobic. Sometimes these gay friends have actively declared their support or lack of offense; other times, they apparently provide immunity simply by existing.

[ profile] solitary_summer Untitled

...between aviv_b's (now locked) RTD-finds-out-about-homophobia story, and the recent debate about (straight) women writing m/m fiction I have this sort of theory why TW fandom blew up so spectacularly after CoE, and it has a lot to do with this slightly uneasy alliance between gay people and the straight part of slash fandom, since both want the same thing, more gay storylines, and there's strength in numbers, and numbers count when it comes to TV.

[ profile] smirnoffmule: On Slashing While Straight and Writing While Queer?

So. Writing slash, for straight people, is kind of like being invited into the living room of the LGBT experience. And it's one thing, as a civilised guest, to make yourself comfortable, relax, and have fun in someone else's house, but it's quite another to litter it with your own crap, stamp your muddy boots all over the carpet, and wank off all over the couch.

[personal profile] jonquil: On appropriation
Welcome to the kyriarchy. Both of groups people are right. Straight women writing slash are privileged on some axes (straight and often cis) and disprivileged on another (gender); gay men have the privilege of being male and the disprivilege (help! need new word!) of being gay. Furthermore, LBTQ slashers are being lumped in with the straight slashers or, frequently, having their very existence denied. Caught between two genuine and valid complaints, what is the honorable thing to do? Everybody has to come up with his/her/[insert appropriate pronoun] own definition of "honorable".

[ profile] gwailowrite: Finally...the story
so for me, negative stereotypes in popular media and fiction (yes, that includes m/m) may piss me off. Not because they hurt me like they used to, but because I know somewhere, there's a 12 year old boy out there whose grown up hearing and seeing gay people as nothing but bad and he's learned to hate himself because of it..Yes, even in this day and age, there are still places--the majority of them-- where young gay people grow up and are taught that gay = evil. That gay should = dead. That gay = sex fiend. And he's hating himself for being that, that thing. And I wonder...
What is the first book he'll find himself in?
And will it help him?
Or will it hurt him?

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(no subject)

Date: 2010-01-14 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I agree with your policy of not removing links to public posts since it makes it harder to follow the discussion.

-Kat from IJ

(no subject)

Date: 2010-01-14 09:19 pm (UTC)
holyschist: Image of a medieval crocodile from Herodotus, eating a person, with the caption "om nom nom" (Default)
From: [personal profile] holyschist
I think that's a reasonable cut policy.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-01-14 11:01 pm (UTC)
sqbr: And yet all I can think is, this will make for a great Dreamwidth entry... (dw)
From: [personal profile] sqbr
The new system sounds fine to me, I wasn't too bothered by the uncut posts but am also happy clicking on a cut. The paragraph of link text was kind of surreal but I realise this is a special case :)

(And I'm fine with this being unscreened)


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