ZombieFail

Feb. 18th, 2010 07:36 pm
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[NOTE: Focus in this linkspam is on LBGT Issues that are tangential to the "gay men and slash" discussion.]

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[personal profile] fairestcat: *rages*

DID YOU SEE WHAT SHE DID THERE??? Because I sure as hell did. Let me break it down.
She suspects that "some female slash writers" who say they're bisexual are just doing it to "gain credibility". But of course, she'd never imply that any specific person were doing that, oh no, she'll just vaguely suggest that "some" of them are, thus casting the net of suspicion and doubt as wide as possible .

[personal profile] alixtii: Femslash and the Lesbian Experience. Which Is Clearly Not My Experience.

It makes sense to me, in a more-or-less purely theoretical way... that may be totally wrong, that a predominately queer female body of writers writing for a predominately queer female audience about characters who are in some sense or another queer and femele doesn't require them focusing on how they are representing themselves (because the people to whom they are representing themselves are themselves), or at least not how they are representing themselves in any way which requires realism. Rather that which is being represented is a set of hopes and dreams, fears and fantasies. It's not a mirror that's intended to exist without distortion; indeed, given the grim reality of so many queer female lives, it'd be the source of much pain and anguish if it were. Femslash, no less than m/m slash, is frequently a genre of escapist literature (although, of course, it doesn't have to be, and it can be in ways other than the immediately obvious).

[livejournal.com profile] bodlon: More thoughts about hot man-on-man action

On the whole, I find the position that slash (or mainstream m/m fiction written by or for women) is anti-gay hard to sustain.
I agree that it’s problematic in that there’s a tremendous amount of appropriation going on, and that there’s a significant amount of factual error and projection happening, but slash doesn’t arise out of some sort of hostile impulse.
Practically speaking, slash exists virtually independently of Actual Gay Men. The only necessary thing that Actual Gay men and slash have in common is the idea that men can be attracted to one another emotionally and/or sexually. If Actual Gay Men were a significant factor for slash to exist (or if slash were a significant factor for Actual Gay Men), there would be more of a connection there.

[livejournal.com profile] mistresscurvy: On Privilege and Responsibility

However. There is a huge difference between saying that there are instances of problematic characterizations or plot points or objectification that should be addressed and saying that women aren't allowed to write about gay men's experiences fullstop. The fact that there are examples of fail within a genre doesn't mean that the entirety of the genre is rotten. This is the exact opposite of the straw man argument from RaceFail09 that since it's so difficult for a white person to write characters of color without failing in some manner, they shouldn't even try. I do believe that writers have a greater responsibility to fully consider how they write characters of marginalized groups they're not members of, but there is a huge difference between that and saying you shouldn't write them at all because you don't belong.

[personal profile] avendya: (no subject) [Poll on demographics of fandom; DW version]
[livejournal.com profile] avendya: (no subject) [Poll on demographics of fandom; LJ version]

This poll is simply trying prove or refute the statements that "fandom is mostly heterosexual females", or "most of fandom identifies as queer" (both of which are common statements at the moment).

[livejournal.com profile] calicokat: (no subject) [Post discusses question of fandom's responsibility to the LBGTQ community]

I've been watching this "Fandom's Responsibility to the LBGTQ Community" from a distance[...] And honestly I haven't read everybody's arguments, only picked up on things here and there, but as for fandom's responsibility to the LBGTQ community...
It doesn't have one.


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[This post contains links to discussions of: lbgt issues, cultural appropriation, gender, and race. Since they do not make up a themed dialogue/discussion, they are posted chronologically, from earlier to later.]

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LGBT Issues: Linkspam #10 )


[Related to the issue of women writing slash but shifting focus to erasure of women in slash]
Women in Slash Linkspam #1 )
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[personal profile] carmarthen: That discussion about m/m fiction and appropriation...
A lot of people seem to be drawing a hard line between porn/erotica/romance and "everything else." The former is somehow not as valid a literary form or something. Which bugs me, because sex is hugely important to a lot of people. Good sex scenes aren't devoid of character, they continue characterization. GoodPWPs still exhibit characterization. We exhibit aspects of ourselves in sexuality and romance that we don't exhibit in other places. Explicit sexual depictions can be just as artistic and meaningful as stories with no sex in them at all.

[personal profile] qwertyuiop: I'm in your fandom queering up your het...
So what category allows me to get what I want and what I am looking for? Het.
But said, I am a lesbian and writing and reading and shipping het does not change that fact, and it also makes the het side of fandom extremely uncomfortable, unsafe, and painful quite a bit of times particularly when het writing/reading/shipping people get on the defensive. It also make a lot of brands of fic positively unreadable for me.

[livejournal.com profile] stoneself: as below, so above: where is the m/m debate going?
[LJ post with different comments than DW linked in #6]
when msm write about msm experiences, it's about us msm.
when you women write about msm experiences, is it about us msm? or is about you women?
if it's about us msm, how?
if it's about you women, how?

[personal profile] stoneself: closing for now on slash fail
harm to msm occurs in m/m.
the question is what to do after that.

[personal profile] duskpeterson: The m/m fiction versus gay fiction battle
As for women versus men? Straight versus gay? Not gonna go there.
So I'm a bit uncomfortable with this drawing of battle lines between genres and between genders and between sexual orientations, as though all of us belonged on one side or the other. I don't want to have to stop being this, just in order to be able to be part of this.


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[livejournal.com profile] xtricks: This week in bigotry: fandom fail flavor of the month

Evidently the curren fandom wank going round is about straight women writing m/m fiction. I hadn't been paying much attention because, hey, other things on my plate. I think that has to change. Not only did I have the misfourtune to read a particularl asinine post about it, the OP also seemed to be claiming that m/m fiction (or at least romantic fiction) wouldn't exist without straight women - because they invented the genre/made it big (or popular or something). I think that's really the first time I got that sense of jaw dropping WTF?!?!?!



[livejournal.com profile] gwailowrite: VERY VERY IMPORTANT

And as you watch it, please remember that the next time a writer of m/m fiction bitches about how they are being persecuted by not being eligible for a Lambda award because they aren't GLBT, their words matter to. Some really hateful things were said during Ally Fail, not as extreme as this man's but hurtful and hateful just the same. Because at the end of the day, those who aren't GLBT but write m/m do not have to face people like this every day of their lives because they only write m/m. They don't have to live it.



[personal profile] stoneself: some more slash fail [Warning: fail in comments]

[Comments on Ann Somerville's "Can we ever stop fighting?"]



[livejournal.com profile] logophilos: Pen names and pretend names

Which doesn’t explain the rash of male or gender neutral names in m/m, becuase slash was and is dominated by women writers, and so is m/m. Male slashers are rare enough in slash to be notable for their gender alone. There are, I think, four actual gay men writing m/m under male names and whose gender is not disputed. There are a handful of trans men. But in percentages, women are well over 90% of the authorship, and probably even higher in terms of readership. If there’s a genre more welcoming to a woman writing under a female pen name, it can only be the wider Romance field. Yet gender neutral or male pen names account are used by nearly 50% of authors in the genre. You don’t find this in the Japanese yaoi/BL tradition, that I’m aware of. It’s peculiar to western publishing.



[livejournal.com profile] mresundance: Meta, Meta, Meta: Two Links

The problem for me, is that a lot of times, the reality of - hey, there are real gay people out there - is strangely absent from too much fan fiction and fan fiction discussions. Even if fan fiction sometimes helps me to feel less alien and less alone in the world, I find it disheartening when I feel my presence - or the presence of people like me - is subtly un-acknowledged or ignored. I don't think it's often intentional. But I do think it is often a reflection of privilege and a reflection of people with privilege not thinking about a wider picture. And I can say I am guilty of that too with other things, such as race and ableism. It's not so much accusation as food for thought.



[livejournal.com profile] logophilos: Apparently I've fucked up again

Okay, judging by the hits I’m getting, and this post as an example, I gather that I’ve pissed some people in the GLBT community off with my post about the m/m genre. I’ve looked at it, talked with gay friends about it and the criticism, and want to try and clarify.



[livejournal.com profile] mothwing: Why can't we all just get alooooong?

Ever since Lambda Fail, the more I about m/m writers, the less patience I have for straight women (well, female and straight male M/M writers in general, to be honest) and their quest to write male-on-male porn or ~romance~ in peace. This "romance" usually is a type of porn, too, the only difference being that the emotional vulnerability of the characters is fetishized rather than their sexuality. Just.... EUGH.



[livejournal.com profile] evildrem: Some questions..

Some of you may be aware of the current debate raging in m/m fiction circles about the validity of women writing gay men etc. I'm not planning on sticking my toe in that particular swamp nor am I going to express any opinions on the subject but reading through the various arguments for and against has raised a few questions in my mind. Now I know that the majority of my flist identify as GLBT so this seems like a good place to ask these questions and they are geared to eliciting responses from people who identify as GLBT. I would however also be interested in hearing from absolutely anyone however you identify yourself.



[livejournal.com profile] maryaminx: In which I rant. A lot.

Yup. Lesbians write slash. A lot of it. There are even scholarly articles about it, even though it apparently BOGGLES THE MIND of every gay man ever. Strangely, though, we seem to be left out of the debate. The straight chicks steamroll right over us with cries of "kawaii!" or "J2!!" and the gay dudes don't seem to see us.



[livejournal.com profile] gwailowrite: How Do I Know If I'm Getting It Right?

So the question was in relation to m/m romance and it was How Do I Know If I'm Getting it Right when it comes to writing gay characters?



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[livejournal.com profile] mrsgiggles00 Why am I Blogging on Christmas?
And it's really, really flying down the slippery slope to try to affix political meanings to MM stories. MM romance is not a form of political statement, it is not a means to spread GLBT awareness, and it really shouldn't be passed off as such. I don't think many GLBT folks are going to buying that.



[livejournal.com profile] clarelondon MAKING SHIT UP
[Warning: privilege. Also note that author has closed comments.]

Teapot tempests keep cropping up over straight women writing GLBT fiction -- and on such a regular basis, many female authors feel forced repeatedly to justify their involvement in the genre. Although I don't share the impulse (so keep in mind this is not a "why I write about gay guys" post), I understand it. Not too many folks want to be perceived as crass, opportunistic, sexist, ignorant, presumptuous, deceitful, and/or callous. But, when you think about it, all this belittlement is absurd. Wasting one’s time and energy trying to counter it is even more absurd.



[livejournal.com profile] sparkindarkness It's only Fiction!

“It’s just fiction” is a stance that a privileged person can take. But for the marginalised? That book with gay/lesbian/black/trans/asian/disabled etc characters is an oddity. It’s a rarity in a world where such portrayals are only remotely common within narrow genres and are nigh-non-existent in the mainstream.

To the privileged, that takes some grasping. I am currently sat surrounded by my library - hundreds of books and dvds. I can pick up any one of them and KNOW there will be a white person inside. I can pick up about 90% of them and know the main character will be white. I can pick up any of them and KNOW there will be a straight person inside - and, again, 90% of the characters within will be straight.

I would say at least half of them are lacking even a token appearance by a POC and up to 80% have no GBLT presence at all. Add in that of those token characters, I would say as many of half of them are strongly stereotypical or otherwise problematic.



[livejournal.com profile] sparkindarkness More on the M/M genre (because I’m not above flogging a dead horse :P)

I have to say this article annoyed me a lot. I didn’t see any sexism in it particularly as was suggested to me (but I’m not a woman so don’t have the awareness) but disrespectful to gay men? Oh yes. It annoyed me further that it contains so much that is problematic and it fails to acknowledge any of it - and sadly these are many of the things that so annoy me about the m/m genre.



Ann Somerville: Can We Ever Stop Fighting?

The two sides in the m/m genre are squaring up again, and it’s getting really ugly. Again. Does it really have to be like this?



TeddyPig: Can I Just Stop The Conversation And Point Out Something Here?

My thing is this and this is a word for my fellow “gay guys” out there in Gay Romance Land arguing away into the night… Maybe we should be getting “the log of bigotry” out of our own eye and our own arguments before pointing out “the splinter of possible exploitation” in another person’s. Just saying!



T T Thomas: Straight “Experts”: It’s ALL about YOU (except when it’s not)

Here’s the thing: A self-appointed “expert” isn’t. Giving yourself an accolade for being an “expert” is basically telling us you are really good at being us. If you are straight, can you be good at representing us, portraying us, capturing some elemental essence of us in words or pictures (literature, film, the visual arts)—sure. Some of you can be very, very good. Is the best of you better than the best of us at those same activities (representing, portraying, capturing, etc)? Absolutely not. Get over yourselves.



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[personal profile] elf
Note: My impartiality has been called into question, and a question of the comm title has been raised. I never claimed to be unbiased. However, I round up everything I can find on the topic, and while I try not to list signalboost posts, I don't intend to leave out anything substantial. (I'll include signalboosts if they've sparked interesting discussions.)

Advice on this would be welcome.
I do this for my own reasons; if what people want from [community profile] linkspam falls outside of those, I won't be willing/able to participate here. I am willing to tell people how I do this (in insane detail), have other people help, or step down if that's wanted; I'm not willing to change my methods just because someone says "you're doing it wrong!" I might be willing to change them if people convince me I'm doing it wrong; that's not the same thing.

[livejournal.com profile] erastes I’ve just received this charming diatribe in my inbox (Comments turned off.)

[livejournal.com profile] logovol Mi fetiche no es credencial (Post in Spanish)

[livejournal.com profile] kynn cue the wtf chorus

[personal profile] keeva Does linkspam need a new tagline?
[livejournal.com profile] kynn Does linkspam need a new tagline? (Same post; different sites; different comments)

[livejournal.com profile] gwailowrite False Allies in Straight-fail

[livejournal.com profile] flourish Lambda Awards kerfuffle

[livejournal.com profile] spoggly re: Lambda Awards

[livejournal.com profile] angrylemur People are idiots, Tuesday edition

[livejournal.com profile] abigail_roux Oh, what a tangled web we writers weave sometimes.

[livejournal.com profile] sparkindarkness Lambda Bingo!

[livejournal.com profile] sunhawk note one on being a good ally

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