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[Trigger Warning: Discussion of gender and con safety includes discussion of sexual harassment at cons]

Gender and Con Safety Linkspam #1 )

Gender and Slash Linkspam #5 )
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[personal profile] fairestcat: *rages*

DID YOU SEE WHAT SHE DID THERE??? Because I sure as hell did. Let me break it down.
She suspects that "some female slash writers" who say they're bisexual are just doing it to "gain credibility". But of course, she'd never imply that any specific person were doing that, oh no, she'll just vaguely suggest that "some" of them are, thus casting the net of suspicion and doubt as wide as possible .

[personal profile] alixtii: Femslash and the Lesbian Experience. Which Is Clearly Not My Experience.

It makes sense to me, in a more-or-less purely theoretical way... that may be totally wrong, that a predominately queer female body of writers writing for a predominately queer female audience about characters who are in some sense or another queer and femele doesn't require them focusing on how they are representing themselves (because the people to whom they are representing themselves are themselves), or at least not how they are representing themselves in any way which requires realism. Rather that which is being represented is a set of hopes and dreams, fears and fantasies. It's not a mirror that's intended to exist without distortion; indeed, given the grim reality of so many queer female lives, it'd be the source of much pain and anguish if it were. Femslash, no less than m/m slash, is frequently a genre of escapist literature (although, of course, it doesn't have to be, and it can be in ways other than the immediately obvious).

[livejournal.com profile] bodlon: More thoughts about hot man-on-man action

On the whole, I find the position that slash (or mainstream m/m fiction written by or for women) is anti-gay hard to sustain.
I agree that it’s problematic in that there’s a tremendous amount of appropriation going on, and that there’s a significant amount of factual error and projection happening, but slash doesn’t arise out of some sort of hostile impulse.
Practically speaking, slash exists virtually independently of Actual Gay Men. The only necessary thing that Actual Gay men and slash have in common is the idea that men can be attracted to one another emotionally and/or sexually. If Actual Gay Men were a significant factor for slash to exist (or if slash were a significant factor for Actual Gay Men), there would be more of a connection there.

[livejournal.com profile] mistresscurvy: On Privilege and Responsibility

However. There is a huge difference between saying that there are instances of problematic characterizations or plot points or objectification that should be addressed and saying that women aren't allowed to write about gay men's experiences fullstop. The fact that there are examples of fail within a genre doesn't mean that the entirety of the genre is rotten. This is the exact opposite of the straw man argument from RaceFail09 that since it's so difficult for a white person to write characters of color without failing in some manner, they shouldn't even try. I do believe that writers have a greater responsibility to fully consider how they write characters of marginalized groups they're not members of, but there is a huge difference between that and saying you shouldn't write them at all because you don't belong.

[personal profile] avendya: (no subject) [Poll on demographics of fandom; DW version]
[livejournal.com profile] avendya: (no subject) [Poll on demographics of fandom; LJ version]

This poll is simply trying prove or refute the statements that "fandom is mostly heterosexual females", or "most of fandom identifies as queer" (both of which are common statements at the moment).

[livejournal.com profile] calicokat: (no subject) [Post discusses question of fandom's responsibility to the LBGTQ community]

I've been watching this "Fandom's Responsibility to the LBGTQ Community" from a distance[...] And honestly I haven't read everybody's arguments, only picked up on things here and there, but as for fandom's responsibility to the LBGTQ community...
It doesn't have one.


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We really appreciate all the feedback that you've offered on the warnings issue, both positive and negative. It's good to hear when we get things right and it helps us even more when we get suggestions as to how we can do better.

One important point that the discussion seems to reinforce is the idea that offering warnings is an inherently subjective enterprise. A post that is viewed by one person as enlightening and important can be viewed by another as marginalizing and hateful. Subjectivity comes not just from the commenter(s) but from the fact that people will inevitably respond to texts in different ways. Even warnings themselves can be read in different ways: as commentary, as reading tools, as educational tools, as activism, as value judgment, as a means of bringing problematic content to light. And, yes, also as criticism, attack, or proof of undesired bias. In all of this discussion, the mod team has attempted to pay particular attention to those who find warnings a necessary tool for reading and participating in anti-oppression discussions.

In general the message we've taken away from your comments is that warnings are useful for many (if not all) people for a whole host of reasons, even given their inherent subjectivity. It seems that they would be more helpful if we could improve their specificity and come up with a set of guidelines that would improve both consistency and transparency. (Particularly when it comes to tricky intersectional and intragroup issues.) Ideally we would like our warnings to function as a means of illuminating and improving the discussion rather than shutting it down.

So... we as the [personal profile] linkspam_mod team will now be going away and trying to put together a coherent set of guidelines on warnings. This may take some time, but hopefully not too long. Naturally the guidelines will be for your use as well as ours, and once we've drawn them up we will present them in [community profile] linkspam so that we can hear your thoughts.

If you have further feedback right now we're still eager to hear it. You can comment on this post, the previous one, or get in touch with us by PM. (As per usual, comments are screened by default but will be unscreened unless they are derailing, abusive or off-topic. If you want your comment to stay screened, please say so.)

One final note: thank you to everyone who expressed concern about burn-out on the part of the mods! For the time being we feel that we have our workload under control, but we'll certainly be looking at our warning policy with an eye towards keeping it that way.
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Several areas of concern regarding the issue of warnings have led to this post.

One: The process of reading lengthy threads in multiple intersectional discussions has proven to be complicated and exhausting. Because of the inherent subjectivity of warnings, deciding when to apply them is a difficult and lengthy process for the linkspam mods. We realize that offering full and ideal warnings may be a task beyond our current capacities and therefore wonder whether it would be preferable to cease warning altogether if our current warnings system proves to be unacceptable.

Two: We have received several comments requesting us to rethink our warnings policy/practices. Requests for ending the practice exist alongside requests to expand the range of things we warn for.

We understand our warnings have been inconsistent, and we have been discussing that, as well as the nature of what to warn for. Since no single Linkspam post is the work of one person (in most cases, three-five people participate), a certain inconsistency may be inevitable.

Our philosophy is that we are not aiming for objectivity. We know we will fail which is why we welcome feedback. As a result of the recent feedback we have received, we are opening up this thread to solicit reader commentary on the issue of warnings.

1. Comment settings will allow anonymous comments.
2. All comments are screened
3. Comments will be unscreened as long as they are not derailing, abusive or off-topic (unless poster requests the comment remain screened).

We would especially appreciate feedback on the following, but of course you are free to respond on any issue.

1. Should Linkspam continue warnings?
2. What kind of warnings are most helpful? Least helpful?
3. If you believe we should offer warnings, how important are they for you?


ETA: When we say we're not objective, we don't mean we allow our personal dislike of a poster to cloud our judgement. In fact, we (as a matter of policy) recuse ourselves from warning when we've a personal history with the poster, or when our personal opinion of zie has become too entangled for us to be neutral. What we mean is that we will always try to be on the side of anti-oppression, and that we try to see issues under that light before any others. Us not being objective is to be taken in context of the usual emphasis on objectivity for journalists, and criticisms we have received pointing out that warning was 'editorialising'.' /ETA
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cut for number of links )


The moderators are discussing feedback concerning Warnings and hope to post later today; until we decide what our policy is, we will continue to try to warn. ETA: The post we hope to post today will solicit feedback. Sorry for the confusion/ETA.
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Coverfail Linkspam #2 )

Disability Linkspam #1 )

The moderators are discussing feedback concerning Warnings and hope to post later today; until we decide what our policy is, we will continue to try to warn. ETA: The post we hope to post today will solicit feedback. Sorry for the confusion/ETA.
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[personal profile] deepad's post I Didn't Dream of Dragons has been nominated for a BSFA award in the non-fiction category.

Hal Duncan also had a piece nominated for this category. However, as a result of Deepa's piece being nominated, he declined his nomination because he thinks her piece is far more relevant and important to the SFF genre.

All of us at [community profile] linkspam would like to offer our congratulations to [personal profile] deepad and to Hal Duncan as well.

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[This post contains links to discussions of: lbgt issues, cultural appropriation, gender, and race. Since they do not make up a themed dialogue/discussion, they are posted chronologically, from earlier to later.]

cut for number of links )
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LGBT Issues: Linkspam #10 )


[Related to the issue of women writing slash but shifting focus to erasure of women in slash]
Women in Slash Linkspam #1 )
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[Warning: This compilation contains posts which may be image-heavy and not entirely accessible.]

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[personal profile] carmarthen: That discussion about m/m fiction and appropriation...
A lot of people seem to be drawing a hard line between porn/erotica/romance and "everything else." The former is somehow not as valid a literary form or something. Which bugs me, because sex is hugely important to a lot of people. Good sex scenes aren't devoid of character, they continue characterization. GoodPWPs still exhibit characterization. We exhibit aspects of ourselves in sexuality and romance that we don't exhibit in other places. Explicit sexual depictions can be just as artistic and meaningful as stories with no sex in them at all.

[personal profile] qwertyuiop: I'm in your fandom queering up your het...
So what category allows me to get what I want and what I am looking for? Het.
But said, I am a lesbian and writing and reading and shipping het does not change that fact, and it also makes the het side of fandom extremely uncomfortable, unsafe, and painful quite a bit of times particularly when het writing/reading/shipping people get on the defensive. It also make a lot of brands of fic positively unreadable for me.

[livejournal.com profile] stoneself: as below, so above: where is the m/m debate going?
[LJ post with different comments than DW linked in #6]
when msm write about msm experiences, it's about us msm.
when you women write about msm experiences, is it about us msm? or is about you women?
if it's about us msm, how?
if it's about you women, how?

[personal profile] stoneself: closing for now on slash fail
harm to msm occurs in m/m.
the question is what to do after that.

[personal profile] duskpeterson: The m/m fiction versus gay fiction battle
As for women versus men? Straight versus gay? Not gonna go there.
So I'm a bit uncomfortable with this drawing of battle lines between genres and between genders and between sexual orientations, as though all of us belonged on one side or the other. I don't want to have to stop being this, just in order to be able to be part of this.


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[personal profile] zvi: You don't have to go looking for this stuff, it just traipses across your reading page, you guys
So, sadly, the happy fun times gay Regency story has fucked up colonial issues. Which sucks donkeyballs, because what someone opening that story up wanted was 20k of the good slashcrack. But, weirdly enough, if you know a lot about the history of India and Britain and you read the story, the issues smack you in the face and throw you out of the whole thing and it's just sitting there being fucked up.

[personal profile] naraht: History without oppression?
You can interrogate oppression, subvert it, attack it, analyze it, satirize it, wearily accept it, ignorantly accept it, happily accept it, ignore it, brush it aside or try to hide it. All of those are options when you're writing historical fiction. But I don't believe it's possible to create an oppression-free society within a given recognizable historical context. Escapism can only ever go so far.

[livejournal.com profile] rm: sundries
Anyway, examining the Regency AU, and the oddities of it, and how to reconcile them or not with the historical and later literary source is really interesting stuff, especially in the context of a lot of the issues fandom is grappling with lately. I think it also speaks, tangentally to a lot of the post-CoE discussion about the use of homophobia in the narrative regarding Ianto. As writers, can we show biases without enacting bias? Is it better to remove non-narratively central hate from stories or keep it in for "realism"? What do we do when the audience doesn't get it? How do we as writers do it so the audience does get it? Are these even in the right questions? Etc.

[personal profile] marina: (no subject) [discussion on subverting or avoiding colonialist attitudes in historical works]
Also I have spent most of today seething over various things that have been on my mind lately. Twilight and True Blood and how one is perceived as ~girl fiction~ and the other is not, Sherlock Holmes and how that movie brilliantly, imo, created a certain universe where all the issues of Victorian England were present but elegantly handled and how I'm afraid that fandom will not realize where the bodies are buried and will traipse all over the skeletons.

[personal profile] darkrose: Through a glass, darkly
Removing a character from their historical context by ignoring the problematic aspects of that context is exactly what I wanted to avoid. At the same time, I'm not writing a dissertation on slavery during the Crusades, or about 10th-century Constantinople, or Roman Alexandria, or the history of any of the cultures Jason's been a part of. The arc is fundamentally a romance. The question that this discussion seems to raise is whether or not it's possible to write a historically accurate story with authentic characters that acknowledges the systems of oppression but isn't, in the end, about those systems.



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