eumelia: I'm Her Fan and I Am Sad || LJ mirror [Warning: Derailing and problematic concepts and language regarding disability and race in comments of LJ mirror]
Reading the back story I was shocked. Not by the story itself, which is clearly a work of elaborate fiction, but by how entitled Amanda Palmer was as to owning this story. Not owning in the intellectual property sense, but in the sense that this story is nothing but fodder for her creativity, as though there is no history to the objectification of conjoined twins and circus freak shows. As though her "giving voice" to these "poor women" with their horrible childhoods are nothing more than material to throw in the audience's face.
dominika_kretek: [Untitled; discusses OP's reaction to Amanda Palmer's work & the Evelyn Evelyn project]
But when this Evelyn Evelyn stuff first started to appear, I stopped following her, cold. It literally turned my stomach. That's not a critique; it's a reaction--but a genuine, deeply felt one. It was the kind of reaction that made me feel like a freak (as it were) because I didn't see outrage being voiced proportional to my visceral response. Well, I walked away without articulating a critique. I didn't have the energy to get into one.
torenheksje: Questions [Warning: Tangential to subject]
What is Art? What are the rules about Art? If it shocks, offends, disgusts, is it then Bad Art? Or Not Art? Is only Good Art acceptable? What is Good Art, then? Is it Art that only invokes positive feelings? Should Art always be Serious if it's meant to represent Serious Things? Is it acceptable to mock Serious Things? Ever?
laguera25: It's Not About Art
Art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm not about to sit here and say that what Amanda Palmer and Jason Wembley are doing isn't art. I don't get to make that distinction just because I find it offensive and want to kill it with fire.
It's about the fact that when real, breathing disabled people, people who live the realities with which Amanda Palmer is so glibly toying in the name of pretension and her precious art, said that they were not okay with what she was doing, were, in fact, hurt and offended by it, she told them to sit down and shut up because she didn't care about them.
Geraly Unite-O'Day @ Mamazilla: an open letter to the creators & fans of evelyn evelyn:
here's a newsflash: just because you know/live with/marry/date someone who's disabled doesn't make you automatically not a bigot.
delphinapterus: Evelyn Evelyn and Conjoined Twins Media [Accessibility Note: Contains several embedded videos] || LJ mirror
I got thinking about the Evelyn Evelyn project some more. I keep seeing the idea that the project can't be known until it's been experienced live. This is an attitude which has its own problems because live performances have their own accessibility issues due to cost, location, wheelchair accessibility, etc.
angrylemur: An Open Letter To Jason Webley
I understand the urge to create when you are inspired by, say, the stories of women who live as conjoined twins. But having “spent a lot of time absorbing writings by and about historical conjoined twins” is not the same as developing a critical analysis of, say, the oppression of people with disabilities, or of survivors of childhood sexual abuse. It is not the same thing as owning those experiences.
mllesays: your intentions mean less than nothing
Once the offense or harm has occurred, that's it. It's is now officially too late. You can explain and backpedal and blather about your intentions all you want, it will not ever matter. (Except maybe to those who weren't personally offended or harmed.) I have never once in my life experienced someone magically getting over being offended or harmed just by the offender explaining themselves.
The appropriate response it to immediately apologize in the correct manner:
"I am sorry that I have offended or harmed you."
katemoore @ Feministing Community: Evelyn Evelyn, fandom, and joke culture. [Warning: Derailing in comments]
See, it isn't just any sense of humor that these people mean. What they're really saying is that "You don't have MY sense of humor." And this sense of humor is determined by society; the way oppression works a lot of the time is that those who are oppressed are set up as jokes for public amusement. If you're not particularly enthused by the idea of being a public joke, you're forgetting your place and obviously don't have a sense of humor. "
kadymae: I love my fellow Tart Cecily. The ranty pants are on. [Warning: Tangential to subject]
And that's crux of what's been pissing me off in the various blamestorming, failmobbing, tail chasing and fingerpointing I've seen eat fandom. This implicit notion that there is the One True Way (tm) to write about anybody who isn't yourself and if you don't follow [select group and/or self-appointed leader's] idea of the truth, the way and the light, you shouldn't be writing/painting/creating, because you don't have the right to say these things.
Peter David @ PeterDavid.net: The Latest Instance of FanFail [Warning: Tangential to subject, and Problematic concepts and language regarding disability and gender in comments]
You want to talk about "fail?" How about "Fanfail".
oursin: The precedents for this kind of thing are not of good augury [Warning: Problematic concepts regarding gender in comments]
Currently all over my reading list, the thing about Amanda Palmer and the pretend-conjoined-twins-with-backstory-
of-abuse-and-exploitation, who were being presented as real people whom she has taken up as proteges, but are really her and someone else. Which is being defended as some kind of edgy art project pushing the boundaries etc, and really being on some level good for people with physical anomalies etc?
Ouyang Dan @ Random Babble: That Stuff on Your Shoe...
See, even when you are famous, and cool and fresh and edgy you are going to fuck up. Every one does it, what matters is how you react to that fuck up. The point is that you have to own it. As quickly as you can, you say "Oops, I fucked up, how can I make this better?".
theoryofgravity: Relief LOLs.
For me, the presentation thus far is crossing the line between laughing WITH someone, and laughing AT them. Though I am neither disabled nor a sexual abuse survivor, as a lifelong deathfat I've had many brushes with being treated like a freak, or something less than human, and even I felt a little uncomfortable, given my own investment in a freak identity. I frankly can't imagine how folks with keener connections to this imaginary story may feel.
kaligrrrl: in which I get "schooled" by a fifteen year old. *snerk*
after the whole "EvelynEvelyn" debacle, I was very disappointed in one of my favorite performers--theoryofgravity manages to perfectly articulate how I feel, as usual--so I decided to leave a comment to Amanda (Fucking) Palmer on her blog post about it.
[The following link shifts focus from the ablist aspects to the problematic handling of childhood sexual abuse and child pornography in the Evelyn Evelyn project.]
Shira @ BARCC Blog: An open letter to Amanda Palmer [Trigger Warning: Descriptions of childhood sexual abuse] [Warning: Derailing in comments]
Dear Amanda Palmer: It is not okay for you to appropriate this voice just to enhance the backstory of your fictional band. It is not okay for you to disregard the actual effects of childhood sexual abuse and child pornography to use it as a marketing tool.
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