Jan. 19th, 2010

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[personal profile] zvi: You don't have to go looking for this stuff, it just traipses across your reading page, you guys
So, sadly, the happy fun times gay Regency story has fucked up colonial issues. Which sucks donkeyballs, because what someone opening that story up wanted was 20k of the good slashcrack. But, weirdly enough, if you know a lot about the history of India and Britain and you read the story, the issues smack you in the face and throw you out of the whole thing and it's just sitting there being fucked up.

[personal profile] naraht: History without oppression?
You can interrogate oppression, subvert it, attack it, analyze it, satirize it, wearily accept it, ignorantly accept it, happily accept it, ignore it, brush it aside or try to hide it. All of those are options when you're writing historical fiction. But I don't believe it's possible to create an oppression-free society within a given recognizable historical context. Escapism can only ever go so far.

[livejournal.com profile] rm: sundries
Anyway, examining the Regency AU, and the oddities of it, and how to reconcile them or not with the historical and later literary source is really interesting stuff, especially in the context of a lot of the issues fandom is grappling with lately. I think it also speaks, tangentally to a lot of the post-CoE discussion about the use of homophobia in the narrative regarding Ianto. As writers, can we show biases without enacting bias? Is it better to remove non-narratively central hate from stories or keep it in for "realism"? What do we do when the audience doesn't get it? How do we as writers do it so the audience does get it? Are these even in the right questions? Etc.

[personal profile] marina: (no subject) [discussion on subverting or avoiding colonialist attitudes in historical works]
Also I have spent most of today seething over various things that have been on my mind lately. Twilight and True Blood and how one is perceived as ~girl fiction~ and the other is not, Sherlock Holmes and how that movie brilliantly, imo, created a certain universe where all the issues of Victorian England were present but elegantly handled and how I'm afraid that fandom will not realize where the bodies are buried and will traipse all over the skeletons.

[personal profile] darkrose: Through a glass, darkly
Removing a character from their historical context by ignoring the problematic aspects of that context is exactly what I wanted to avoid. At the same time, I'm not writing a dissertation on slavery during the Crusades, or about 10th-century Constantinople, or Roman Alexandria, or the history of any of the cultures Jason's been a part of. The arc is fundamentally a romance. The question that this discussion seems to raise is whether or not it's possible to write a historically accurate story with authentic characters that acknowledges the systems of oppression but isn't, in the end, about those systems.



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[personal profile] carmarthen: That discussion about m/m fiction and appropriation...
A lot of people seem to be drawing a hard line between porn/erotica/romance and "everything else." The former is somehow not as valid a literary form or something. Which bugs me, because sex is hugely important to a lot of people. Good sex scenes aren't devoid of character, they continue characterization. GoodPWPs still exhibit characterization. We exhibit aspects of ourselves in sexuality and romance that we don't exhibit in other places. Explicit sexual depictions can be just as artistic and meaningful as stories with no sex in them at all.

[personal profile] qwertyuiop: I'm in your fandom queering up your het...
So what category allows me to get what I want and what I am looking for? Het.
But said, I am a lesbian and writing and reading and shipping het does not change that fact, and it also makes the het side of fandom extremely uncomfortable, unsafe, and painful quite a bit of times particularly when het writing/reading/shipping people get on the defensive. It also make a lot of brands of fic positively unreadable for me.

[livejournal.com profile] stoneself: as below, so above: where is the m/m debate going?
[LJ post with different comments than DW linked in #6]
when msm write about msm experiences, it's about us msm.
when you women write about msm experiences, is it about us msm? or is about you women?
if it's about us msm, how?
if it's about you women, how?

[personal profile] stoneself: closing for now on slash fail
harm to msm occurs in m/m.
the question is what to do after that.

[personal profile] duskpeterson: The m/m fiction versus gay fiction battle
As for women versus men? Straight versus gay? Not gonna go there.
So I'm a bit uncomfortable with this drawing of battle lines between genres and between genders and between sexual orientations, as though all of us belonged on one side or the other. I don't want to have to stop being this, just in order to be able to be part of this.


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