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[livejournal.com profile] ix_tab: Sorry to be posty-mcposterson, but just a random thought on a fandom kerfuffle
I'm a big ol queer. Lesbian who will also do with it with all the trans folk is probably the best way to describe me.

[personal profile] melannen: More science!
So first! Apparently the poll numbers about most slashers being queer struck a chord with people. (yay!)

[personal profile] copracat: so you're back from outer space
Until Ces's post I'd been mostly ignoring it because, hey, not a straight chick, not a writer of professional m/m romance etc etc. The post opened my eyes to the idea that maybe slash isn't okay all the time because some drag performances make me want to stab the hateful, misogynistic perpetrators till they die. Aspects of slash fanfiction that make gay men feel like that mean I'd best be thinking harder at what I'm doing, hey?
If the analogy has legs and drag is not always okay, then slash is not always okay.

[livejournal.com profile] eumelia: "Little Boxes on the Hillside"
The whole debate regarding slash and m/m is coming off as a huge turf war. It really isn't who has the right to write what because honestly, people will and should write what they want.
The policing of identities (straight women writing gay men), while erasing identities (queer women, straight men) is irritating.

[livejournal.com profile] black_trillium: slashing
So. Women writing about men having sex with each other, even if they're not striaght, cisgendered women, are appropriating from WHAT THEY KNOW/ HAVE EXPERIENCED of the culture and identity of gay men. Which is fine, in so far as i'm concerned.
So long as people don't think they're doing gay men some huge, selfless service and making the world a sparkly place because of it.

[insanejournal.com profile] xie_xie_xie: [Warning: Privilege in Comments] Where on the fail spectrum am I?
And so you see, what am I exactly? What is a lesbian who doesn't "write slash" generally but does have this strange fascination for one male/male couple and writes about them constantly, for years? Am I on the side of the outraged disenfranchised queers, or the women squeeing softly at the buttsex?

[livejournal.com profile] thoracopagus: [meta] The Slash Debate: Slash and Heterosexual Privilege
Because to some people, slash fiction is the problem, regardless of how welcoming and truly supportive some fen are. That doesn't mean slash is good, or bad, as a rule, or that it shouldn't exist. But that doesn't invalidate the feelings of people who have a problem with it (that isn't homophobia).
The point, I think, is not that slash is written by straight people, or women. It's that slash fiction is NOT gay fiction. Slash fiction isn't even always about gay people. And that creates issues when slash fans claim a link between slash and LGBT interests, or compare it to LGBT literature, or think gay people should embrace it as a whole.

[livejournal.com profile] thoracopagus: [meta] The Slash Debate: Queer vs. Female Space
To slash, or not to slash: this is the big question, debated by slash writers and, primarily, gay men (those who do not write slash, because slash is something consumed and created by all genders, all races, age brackets, and people of every sexual identity).
Overwhelmingly, though, slash is written "by women, for women." To the women in question, this is an empowering act, which transforms slash fandom into a female space.
Female space, not queer space. The overall exclusion of gay women from the slash debate is evidence of this, though, really, it's not hard to figure out.

[livejournal.com profile] thoracopagus: [meta] this is why I get to call myself a dyke and still ask that you not
I come to this meta post. I read a post that mirrors my experience, and I feel understood, because I am. I point out that it baffles me that lesbians are being excluded from the discussion rather than trotted out as the reason that slash fic is for everyone and not like lesbian porn, because as the "gay friend" people will trot out, I have a reasonable expectation of seeing this, and also, this is a queer space, I can express my bitterness over exclusion.
But not, apparently, without explaining myself to self-professed straight fen who think I'm condoning the gay friend argument. Ironic in and of itself, since my condoning it would essentially be someone's gay friend saying it is okay to invoke your gay friend. And I did explain myself, and apologize for my bitterness, but then I realized that I don't have to. I'm a lesbian, speaking to another lesbian: I don't have to explain what I'm talking about to you or apologize for a feeling that is unique to my experience.

[personal profile] mjules: I really wasn't going to get involved in this
Here is the revelation I came to this morning: Yes, I do feel that a large majority of the fiction published in the m/m genre is wildly appropriative and insensitive. I do feel that people are writing The Other from prefabricated scripts fed to them by the mainstream media that has yet to get us (the queer community) right in any large and significant way. I do feel that many of these authors are not open to learning what in their writing is not only wrong but also offensive.

[personal profile] jamie: Hmm
I suspect slash media fandom is an idealized concept of what we think gay relationships should be like given what we see on TV and are acculturated to.
And when I sit back and look at the sentence and think about how most women are portrayed on television? Damn, that pisses me off. We're good enough to talk about the men in our lives. We're good enough to show off as trophies. We're good enough to either be a virgin to be adored or a slut enough to fuck.
Well, given that? I can't say I blame queers and trans and gays and lesbians in fandom or not - to be really squicked out and turned off when they stumble across slash for the first time.
I can't stand the romance section of the bookstore either, frankly.

[livejournal.com profile] writestufflee: [Warning: Privilege] Meta Flail &*(_)($#@% bullshit
Writing fiction is only partially a political act. It is only a political act if you, the writer, intend to make it one, not if someone interprets it that way. Nobody gets to say what the ultimate meaning of your piece of fiction is but you. Other people can interpret it as they like, and see what they want to see, and do, which is the wonderful thing about literature, but the only one who really knows What It Means is the writer. To say otherwise is to believe you, the critic, have a special mission from the Gods of Literature, and there are good drugs for that now... Either way, if you insist that writer has no right to tell that story, FOR WHATEVER REASON, that's censorship.



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