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shawnam: I can't ignore you any longer!Anyway, the first thing I wanted to address today is the tempest in a teapot that has been stirred up by the announcement of Realms of Fantasy's Women in Fantasy issue. Doug Cohen, the general editor, announced the issue earlier this week, and apparently a mini-firestorm immediately erupted on the basis of whether or not it's sexist that such an issue even exist. I decided to ignore that, as usual, since I thought it was silly. But then some more serious charges arose around Doug's choice of language in his announcement, and I can't ignore the issue or the internet any longer.
benpayne: Realms of MANtasy???What the editor, apparently one Douglas Conan, failed to realise is that women are creatures of wild emotion and oversensitive feelings.
You can't talk down to them. In order to patronise them, you have to patronise them carefully. [Satire]
girliejones: What, What Did You Say?Why would you ever refer to professional female writers that way? I've been trying to wrap my head around whether the reverse would ever happen. Noone would ever refer to writers like Jeff Vandermeer or Cory Doctorow or China Mieville as "boy writers". There's even a more stark comparison in the guidelines themselves which asks "Gents" not to apply. Male writers = Gents; Female writers = girls. It's hard for me to get past, clarifications or no.
Christian A Young @ Dimlight Archive: Something to buy in a heartbeat, and something I’m not buying even for a minute
Realms of Fantasy making a visible commitment to do the work, especially in light of their long-standing reputation for gender bias and consistently utilizing cover art targeted at the (heterosexual) male gaze, would be incredibly welcome.
A “girl writers only” issue isn’t going to achieve that. It’s particularly not going to achieve that when the call for submissions makes it sound like they’re setting the bar low, is badly worded, and is full of diminutive language (ladies, girls).
cassiphone: More on Realms of FantasyLet the lesson be this: jokey attitude in submission guidelines? Rarely a good idea. Like it or not, big budget or operating out of your garage, when you set submission guidelines, you are in a position of power & privilege over the people who might be thinking of submitting to you, and taking that lightly is a fast way to offend people, especially when you are attempting to pre-select your work from a limited group of people whether your discrimination is based on age, gender, cultural background, etc.
ithiliana: claiming X is the FIRST of anything is a very risky claimShawna McCarthy posting about the RoF discussion, claiming (again) (incorrectly) that she published the first anthology of women in sf in 1983.
As ide_cyan points out in the first comment, she and Ellen Datlow tried to point out several times that no, there were anthologies earlier.
So Shawna McCarthy has learned something today.
yuki_onna: A Book of One's Own You know, just about every time I post anything about writing, but especially if I post about increasing the visibility of women, queer culture, and people of color in literature, I get several of this kind of comment--and yes, I just got ANOTHER one on my Racefail post. "If you want more representations of women/gays/PoC, why don't you write your OWN damn books?" Often accompanied by the cute addendum: "Just tell YOUR story, and don't worry about politics."... My story *is* political.
stonetable: The Lemonhead Defense: A Plea to Warren LapineWarren, criticism of Realms of Fantasy aren’t personal attacks against you and invoking the lemonhead defense against them is eroding the respect equity that the magazine has earned itself over the years. Look at it as an opportunity to interact with the community. Listen to what’s being said. If you choose to respond, do so thoughtfully, even if in disagreement. Stand firm in your beliefs but be open to hearing other points of view. People aren’t asking for special favors, they’re asking for equal treatment, equal representation. Instead of a "Women-only" issue, focus on the “Women in Fantasy” theme and accept submissions from all. Solicit stories from a number of profile authors of all genders. Publish the stories that work.
S.F. Murphy @ Murphy's Pondering Tree: An Interesting Thing Happened on the Way to Oblivion
The fail has manifested itself into Racefail (google that) Boobfail, and the list goes on. Each of these cycles revolves around a charge against an editor or writer, perhaps a publication, of discriminatory conduct. In some cases, these charges have the patina of legitimacy. In other cases, they do not. What is probably most reprehensible about these fail cycles is the veiled or outright accusation of bigoted behavior by members of fail fandom (some of whom are either writers or aspiring writers themselves). Even when these accusations are brought down by other members of the community, there is almost never a retraction of the original charges, never a true apology.
The Crochety Old Fan: FAIL fail
I’ve yet to be convinced that there is a “problem”. I haven’t seen the numbers. How many stories are submitted by female writers vs male writers? How many stories are submitted to the right market by either group? How many good stories by women? If I knew for certain that more stories were submitted by competent female authors than male authors, I’d be certain that there is a problem and I’d be pretty sure that there was some editorial bias going on.
Robert Hoge @ Hogetown: From the "You can please some of the people some of the time" file
There’s not a lot of great data on this out there but I suspect some of the under-representation problem - though far from all - is a flow-through issue. Part of the reason female writers are under-represented in various anthologies and magazines may be that they are under-represented in the number of submissions. And this is where I’m mostly interested in - and supportive of - the move from Realms. Announcing the issue so far in advance should encourage more female writers to submit. Hopefully that might go beyond just one issue but only time will tell.
girliejones: Update on the wording of the Realm of Fantasy Submission CallElsewhere on the internet last night I found myself being stripped down for being offended, told I had a skin so thin it was translucent and that this poor man was never going to win because I was always going to tear strips off him. These are of course the traditional methods for silencing women, being put back in the box. I've come a long way I think in this last year. I don't think I was wrong to express my own reaction and I don't need this reaction to find approval from a man in order for me to be able to feel it. It was also implied that I could not object to the word "girls" in a professional call for a professional submission because my lj handle is "girliejones". It had me thinking about whether I need to defend or explain the idea of taking back and owning words that have been used derogatorily and how the use of words is all about context. But I'm not teaching Feminism 101 anymore.
amethyst_dragon: Skin So Thin It's Transparent - My OpinionHoo Boy! I am probably going to catch some flack from my er...fellow...er...ladies over this post! Over on brendanpodger 's journal he made a post about Realms of Fantasy and some word usage that was made. Apparently the editor used the terms "girls" and "ladies" that had some feminists screaming their lungs out that it was sexist. Then when the poor fellow tried to make an apology, he chose to use the term "ruffled some feathers". I agree with Brendan, at this point, no matter what this gentleman said, he was going to be just wrong.
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(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:14 pm (UTC)S.F. Murphy: In the face of the evidence (see Mind-blowing SF), I am OPPRESSED! OPPRESSED I TELL YOU! MORE OPPRESSED THAN YOU!
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:21 pm (UTC)Annoyingly, that site is comment by registration only.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:24 pm (UTC)out of context - from The Crotchety Old Fan
Date: 2010-01-12 03:28 pm (UTC)Your selection of a quote from my post of a few days ago slants the entire thing and makes it sound as if I don't think there is a problem - when I have clearly acknowledged in that piece and others that there is.
It's called begging the question. Here's another paragraph from the same post that whomever chose not to quote from:
"The above numbers also reinforce the fact that early on, the genre was a male preserve. But I have no way of knowing how much that may have changed since, say, the mid 70s. How many female SF writers are out there and how many are being rejected for cause (poor stories) and how many for cause (mean old privileged white men)?"
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 03:59 pm (UTC)Yup. Apparently Samuel Delany happened to other people.
Around about the middle of the previous decade a community of internet activists within the American Science Fiction Community began to coalesce around issues such as racism, sexism, and other issues of discrimination.
To be entirely fair, you could claim that "of internet activists" modifies the whole thing and that he's only complaining about internet activists. I doubt it.
Also, he hates cities.
> I am not particularly interested in writing stories set in an urban environment, which is a place I view, personally, as a negative. Sure, the historian in me sees the value of cities as producers of revenue, culture, industrial products and as consumers of what the rural outer marches produce but on a personal, gut level, I’d rather be writing this from a kitchen table on a farm rather than the table of a Panera’s at Crown Center in Kansas City.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 04:04 pm (UTC)Oopsie.
Yup. Apparently Samuel Delany happened to other people.
Mmm. And the decades of theory and discussion about imagery and representation in media and popular culture in general apparently didnt happen at all. OK then!
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 04:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 07:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 07:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 08:04 pm (UTC)But what I liked the linkspams for was a short, concise list of, well, links. I understand why you feel it's important to add more information. But it's really not what I'd subscribed for. My issue could be fixed by having a list of bare links at the top, followed by the cut, followed the links with quotes and warnings and whatnot -- but that's way too much work, and not only am I not asking for it, I don't think you should do it. I find the quotes actively distracting and kind of weirdly unsettling, because it means you all are reading the posts enough to pick out pull quotes and set them up and -- knowing how draining the linkspams can be -- I am not sure I want to put people to that much effort. This is my weird issue, and I don't expect anyone to base community decisions on it! But it is how I feel about the long-edition linkspams.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 08:39 pm (UTC)I find the quotes useful for telling what's worth reading when I have limited time, but you're making a lot of work for yourselves in doing that. I don't think the benefit to lazy or time-pushed readers is worth the risk of people burning out that much sooner. (This observation doesn't apply to warnings, which are a more crucial feature.)
OT
Date: 2010-01-12 10:30 pm (UTC)"...for the record, I am white (Lower Frankonian:Main region, Lower Frankonian:Rhön region / undefined German)"
what *is* it with the totally non-apropos brackets??? Newsflash: still white, dude.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 10:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 10:44 pm (UTC)I like the pullquotes.
I would prefer a cut, but it's not a big deal as I use a thinger to open cuts right on my reading list anyway.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-12 11:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-13 03:05 am (UTC)I don't know if you've seen these posts with tips on the issue of cutting posts: The answer of whether to cut or uncut newsletter issues and Fun with core2 styles and CSS: filtering posts on your reading page? Basically, you don't need to put your posts under cut on your end. Instead:
1) If your readers prefer to put all posts under cut, ask them go to Custom CSS and input in the Use embedded CSS:
.page-read .entry-wrapper+.journal-linkspam { display: none;}AND/OR
2) If your readers prefer to put long posts under cut, use this as your posting template for long posts:
<div class="linkspam-content.long"> [body of linkspam] </div>. Then ask your reader to go to Custom CSS and input in the Use embedded CSS:.linkspam-content.long { display: none !important; }Hope this is helpful instead of confusing!
(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-13 03:10 am (UTC).entry-wrapper+.journal-linkspam blockquote {margin: -.5em 1em -.5em 1em;}Click save and that should get rid of most of the white space. (Mess around with the -.5em if needed.) That's what I did and it works wonder. =)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-13 03:23 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-13 03:24 am (UTC)Re: out of context - from The Crotchety Old Fan
Date: 2010-01-13 02:43 pm (UTC)Pseudonyms
Date: 2010-01-13 03:04 pm (UTC)There is a long history of pseudonymity among Internet fans, nearly as old as public access to the Internet itself. The reason is *not* hiding from other fans, not for the most part; it's separating your personal and professional lives. There are many fans who are lawyers, and teachers, and small-town government employees. The idea that a conservative employer may encounter you talking passionately about m/m fiction is not only disturbing but threatening. People have gotten fired.
There is no reason to make your life in the private sphere available in the professional sphere. When I attend a meeting on model trains, my employer can't Google me; when I argue online, my employer sees it all. I'm not "hiding behind a pseudonym"; I'm making sure that when a would-be employer Googles me, the employer sees results about my work, not about my opinions on fanfiction. I damn well know my employers Google me, because non-professional things you can find on the Internet have come up in job interviews.
I may add that I've used the same online pseudonym since at least 1995. It has weight. It has a known personality and a known cluster of friends. Walking away from that persona (which I have no intention of doing) would exact a substantial cost; I'd lose my carefully-accumulated (for better and worse) reputation.
Postscript: When I say "persona", I don't mean "adopted personality". Consistently, when people I know online meet me in person, they report that they recognize the woman they know online, although the real-life person is somewhat worse-edited.
Post-post-script: Case in point, I have just edited this posting twice for grammar and spelling mistakes, as well as to add esprit de l' Internet.
Re: OT
Date: 2010-01-13 03:08 pm (UTC)Re: OT
Date: 2010-01-13 05:18 pm (UTC)Re: OT
Date: 2010-01-13 05:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-01-13 05:34 pm (UTC)