linkspam: Lambda Literary Awards Masterpost

	no subject keeva 2009-09-29 12:55 am UTC (link)
	My comments: keeva: shocking, i tell you kynn: shocking, i tell you (Same post; different journals; different comments) (Reply to this)

	no subject logophilos 2009-09-29 01:23 am UTC (link)
	Straight* women – it’s not about you http://logophilos.net/blather/?p=2127 Lambda Literary Foundation Policy Guidelines clarified http://logophilos.net/blather/?p=2139 You know what’s really wrong with the m/m genre? http://logophilos.net/blather/?p=2147 (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject logophilos 2009-09-29 03:34 am UTC (link)
	Just saw this: http://likespring.livejournal.com/733277.html (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject keeva 2009-09-29 02:26 am UTC (link)
	The deletions have begun. The kiernankelly post was removed, after the racist and privileged statement "Yeah, they celebrate straight allies. So long as we don't drink from their water fountains." was challenged. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

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elf
2009-09-29 03:07 am UTC (link)

I'm *so* not dealing with tracking removals. Sometimes, people lock them down after they get the Linkspam notification; I figure that's fine--on the one hand, I don't follow the Metafandom policy of "only posts that allow public comments, remove on request;" on the other, I figure people who want to avoid attention from not-their-f'list can lock it down for a week or two.

IceRocket turned up several posts that had already been deleted or locked in the last few days.

I'm a bit conflicted on where I personally stand in all this, and fortunately probably don't have time to write a thoughtful post about it; I don't need to piss off a new swarm of people with my thoughts on sexual identities, community relations, and politics. (I'm sure I'll annoy people here & there with my comments anyway. But I won't have much time for those; I can't access the journalsphere from work.)

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	no subject keeva 2009-09-29 03:24 am UTC (link)
	I'm not expecting you to update the post, but I'm just mentioning it for people who try to follow the link and end up wondering if you got the URL wrong. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject torachan 2009-09-29 03:46 am UTC (link)
	Oh my what!? D: Dear kiernankelly, Being an ally, you're doing it wrong! (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	screencapping kaizoku 2009-09-30 07:10 am UTC (link)
	Speaking of which, is anyone capping posts for future reference/mockage? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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keeva
2009-09-29 05:15 am UTC (link)

BTW, for the record: I think this particular

linkspam post does a disservice to the issue by only putting the supposedly "controversial" passage up front, and not an explanation of what the Lambda Literary Awards are, their mission statement, or their rule about self-identification.

It's saying "here's the stuff people are mad about!" but not actually providing a fair and honest view of the situation. In my opinion, skewing the issue in this particular direction is irresponsible (and possibly an expression of privilege).

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elf
2009-09-29 05:40 am UTC (link)

I've added the mission statement; this will probably serve to make the bias appear to go the other direction (from the mission statement, it's unclear why there would be any controversy; since I couldn't verify whether the mission statement has changed since last year, I'm not calling it the "new" mission statement).

I'm not straight. What type and level of not-straight isn't something I discuss in public. The LGBTQetc community is very much my community; I'm not looking at this as an outsider.

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	no subject keeva 2009-09-29 06:07 am UTC (link)
	They can change their mission statement whenever they like, though. They're not an organization of cis, straight people. If giving accurate facts makes the "bias go in the other direction" then perhaps you should consider that an indictment of the original bias. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject sparkymonster 2009-09-29 12:03 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you for doing this. (Reply to this)

	no subject lilitu93 2009-09-29 12:17 pm UTC (link)
	Karnythia's done a post on it here: http://karnythia.livejournal.com/1385798.html (Sorry I didn't link the name to the account - have never learned how to do that, and I'm posting from work. Yeah, I know it's in the FAQ somewhere.) (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject elf 2009-09-29 03:06 pm UTC (link)
	User names at Dreamwidth: <user name="username"> for a Dreamwidth user; <user name="username" site="livejournal.com"> for an LJ user. (Replace lj.com with ij.com or jf.net etc. as appropriate.) And thank you for the link. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject dharma_slut 2009-09-29 05:09 pm UTC (link)
	[Bad username or unknown identity: Dubious Virtue] has these two http://dubious-virtue.livejournal.com/5706.html http://dubious-virtue.livejournal.com/5626.html (Reply to this)

	whose side? stoneself 2009-09-29 06:33 pm UTC (link)
	hey elf, just checking. you're siding with the people with straight privilege? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 40 comments) (Show 40 comments)

Re: whose side?

elf
2009-09-30 01:44 am UTC (link)

Erm. I'm siding with the people who think this was not a great move on the LLF's part. Some of those people are straight. Some are not. I'm not siding with the people who think this was a perfectly reasonable and sensible move, and nobody should've had any reaction to it. Some of those people are straight; some are not.

I'm still sorting out facts and rumours and hints of backroom drama; I don't intend to hit any absolute decisions, but overall, so far, I think this was a step backwards for LGBT relations with the rest of the world.

"Having an LGBT only lit award:" fine concept. Much approval for that. Yes, absolutely, we should have safe-space and community-focused awards that celebrate quality writing that expresses our own values, without the chance of rewarding some outsider who happens to hit on the right combination of phrasing and plotbits that make the story sing to us, without any requirement of real understanding from the author herself.

"Changing a lit award for LGBT-themed stories, to one that requires LGBT authors:" less fine. This isn't creating safe space; it's slamming doors that used to be open. At the very least, much drama should've been expected.

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	Re: whose side? amadi 2009-09-30 03:16 am UTC (link)
	"Changing a lit award for LGBT-themed stories, to one that requires LGBT authors:" less fine. And if that was what happened here, you'd have a point, but it isn't. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 20 comments) (Show 20 comments)

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keeva, 2009-09-30 03:32 am UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-09-30 04:13 am UTC (Expand)

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elf, 2009-09-30 04:32 am UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-09-30 05:23 am UTC (Expand)

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kathmandu, 2009-09-30 05:32 am UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-09-30 04:23 pm UTC (Expand)

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kathmandu, 2009-09-30 05:58 pm UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-09-30 07:02 pm UTC (Expand)

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anehan, 2009-09-30 07:29 am UTC (Expand)

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elf, 2009-09-30 07:34 am UTC (Expand)

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anehan, 2009-09-30 07:42 am UTC (Expand)

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alchemia, 2009-09-30 01:10 pm UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-09-30 04:26 pm UTC (Expand)

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pine, 2009-09-30 04:59 pm UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-09-30 07:07 pm UTC (Expand)

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pine, 2009-09-30 10:13 pm UTC (Expand)

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elf, 2009-10-01 12:54 am UTC (Expand)

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amadi, 2009-10-01 12:55 am UTC (Expand)

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keeva, 2009-10-01 05:32 am UTC (Expand)

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pandarus, 2009-10-03 12:08 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: whose side?

jame_alec
2009-09-30 03:20 am UTC (link)

So, what part of their mission statement did you find confusing that would lead you to believe that their organization was in any way about straight cis people?

The Lambda Literary Foundation is dedicated to raising the status of openly lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered people throughout society by rewarding and promoting excellence among LGBT writers who use their work to explore LGBT lives.

Emphasis mine. By your logic, it's just as unfair to not give an award to an author that's queer but doesn't write queer stories, even though that's plainly not at all what the organization or the award is about.

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keeva, 2009-09-30 03:30 am UTC (Expand)

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elf, 2009-09-30 03:46 am UTC (Expand)

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jame_alec, 2009-09-30 03:55 am UTC (Expand)

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elf, 2009-09-30 04:05 am UTC (Expand)

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jame_alec, 2009-09-30 04:16 am UTC (Expand)

Re: whose side?

stoneself
2009-09-30 11:05 am UTC (link)

in summary, i'd say you're siding with the people with the privilege here.

giving the privileged people the benefit of the doubt. really?

privileged entitled people are having a shit fit about "reverse discrimination" and you personally are focused on how the people with straight privilege are offended?

you have totally missed the point of this community.

you started this linkspam, as i understand it, to point out the evil wrong things llf did to straight m/m writers.

focus on the privilege.

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bork, 2009-09-30 03:15 pm UTC (Expand)

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stoneself, 2009-09-30 06:51 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: whose side?

(Anonymous)
2009-09-30 01:13 pm UTC (link)

"Changing a lit award for LGBT-themed stories, to one that requires LGBT authors:" less fine. This isn't creating safe space; it's slamming doors that used to be open.

How? Maybe if you lived in ideal world where everyone and their work was treated equally I'd agree. But in world with spaces where gay authors work is devalued because of their sexuality and not given an equal space to work with compared to their straight/cis counterparts why shouldn't they? I hate hearing things like "wow look how open minded x author/actor/movie maker is for taking on lgbt themed work" while when gay authors do the same it's thought of "oh of course you would do that". Yes some might have a little trouble because of their story's theme they can easily rest on that fact that they aren't lgbt and can just say they're "expanding their horizons", "exploring" or the same annoying "open minded" comfort line I used above when it comes talking to some homophobic publishers, readers or whatever is needed to go get their story published, praised or read.

Gay authors might be told not to be "too out" with their identity for fear of alienating some people who wouldn't want to see a "gay production" but rather a one with a good degree of separate they can dissociate themselves with (Gay is icky after all - just not when I'm making money off it)*. Others might have problems with co-workers boyfriends/girlfriends or fetishizing spaces like yaoi fangirl/yuri fanboy/t-chasers where their work isn't respected as it should be.

I think this also gives a place where budding gay artist can see people who are gay and successful giving some hope and inspiration to people who believe there is no work or success in writing gay novels as a lgbt or queer person.

So at the end of the day; I don’t see this as a real restriction as much as it is widening the door for a more clearer space for queer artist to be respected and held in the same esteem their straight counterparts would get normally. And I think if people really cared that much they should show support to them or wish them the best instead of throwing fits and saying hurtful vaguely homophobic things like calling lgbt uppity or saying "all the qualified people have been left out" of the Lambada awards.

I also understand that some queer people disagree as well and I think the same thing can pretty much apply to them as well.

*Example: http://www.towleroad.com/2009/02/new-york-artist.html

Ch~Wa

(I hope you can unscreen this comment after I post it.)

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Re: whose side? -

elf, 2009-10-01 12:48 am UTC (Expand)

Re: whose side?

elf
2009-09-30 01:46 am UTC (link)

That said--I'm trying very hard to be impartial in linkspam collection. (Which is fairly easy, actually; once the metastorm gets going, I barely have time to gather links, and no time to read & think about them.)

If there are some that are particularly and directly offensive (I mean, as in name-calling, rather than by abstract concept), I'm happy to tag them with warnings to brace before clicking. (I'm happy to tag the abstract-insulting ones too, but identifying those is much harder.)

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	Re: whose side? keeva 2009-09-30 03:31 am UTC (link)
	...and no time to read & think* about them.* That's been clear from your attempts at commentary on this issue, which invariably lean toward excusing cis, straight privilege and furthering oppression against LGBT people. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

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kathmandu, 2009-09-30 06:04 pm UTC (Expand)

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keeva, 2009-09-30 06:17 pm UTC (Expand)

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kathmandu, 2009-10-01 05:24 am UTC (Expand)

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keeva, 2009-10-01 05:29 am UTC (Expand)

	Re: whose side? keeva 2009-09-30 02:54 am UTC (link)
	So: Yes, you're right, she's siding with the people with straight privilege. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

no subject

nile
2009-10-02 12:41 am UTC (link)

Apparently this has been recently documented at http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/LambdaFail

However, myself, knowing I would rather make sure all sides are covers, came to post and if anyone could endeavor to be unbiased, they can edit the page. However even if a bias problem occurs, no big deal....it can be labeled as a conflict and FanHistory can find people to help resolve that issue.

Thought I would share so the issue is covered properly.

(Reply to this)

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Lambda Literary Awards Masterpost

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